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    The “New” Terp Fan

    Boy I was ready to lay into young Ethan for his remark in the previous post about Gary Williams “screwing up” the Ross situation should the young man decide not to sign with the Terps. I got all lathered up…. I was like Artest heading into the crowd ready to tear someone’s head off (sorry for the 4 year old reference). Then I noticed that a lot of you guys beat me to it. How dare the youngster say such things about GW. I know we all have our opinions on Gary and what he’s done and how much longer he should be doing it, but how could he say that Gary could ’screw up’ the recruiting?

    Then I relaxed and thought about it. I certainly don’t agree with that sentiment, but I can see where it comes from. Think about it. We all lived through the program at it’s worst. Most of us remember where we were when the Bias story hit. Folks my age (35), who are alums, were at the school when Joe Smith, Keith Booth, Johnny Rhodes, etc. brought the school back. We were there in 1995 and in 1998 when we toppled number one UNC at home. We remember nearly every play from the 2001 Final 4 and the jubilation of 2002.

    But for a current sophomore in College Park, they were 4 years old when Joe Smith was a freshman. They were 8 years old when we beat Carter and Jamison in 1998 (well, Carter didn’t play, but you know what I mean!). They were 11 in ‘01 and just 12 when we won the national title. The Terps were a top team for most of their entire childhood and they went to College Park with expectations. After all the success, these current students were spoiled. Therefore, they don’t truly realize the history. I think you can read about it and perhaps watch some shows about it, but most of us have lived that history. It gives us a different perspective, and it gives THEM a different perspective.

    They see the lack of top recruits as a failure by Gary, and it some ways it has been. The margin for error is small for a team without a breakout star. Gary does not play the AAU game and that has cost us. And after the Washington Post hatchet job from last year, most of these students see the program in a negative light.

    If those students saw the way the students were in the 90’s, they would be embarrassed by some of their behavior, like booing their own players. But that being said, young sports fans are all fickle these days. In most places, if you win, you’ll have great crowds. If you lose and the expectations were high, you will get booed. Think of the Redskins fans who booed when the team kneeled to run out the clock to WIN a game earlier this year. It’s tough.

    Now, I sound like an old guy. I know it. I’m not saying those students need to change the way they root for their team. It’s up to them to decide how they want to cheer. But I understand how things are different now than they were when we were students.

    Now, as for the Ross situation. Anybody can see that if this kid keeps his word and comes to College Park next year, we will have a very exciting team. I think they have a chance to do a lot of great things over the next couple of years should they keep the team intact. The current senior class will be missed, but the speed and skill of the younger players, especially those coming in next year can really bring that success back into the program so we aren’t sweating over a few losses in November or December.

    It’s in most of us to be nervous and pessimistic over whether we will lose recruits these days. We have reason to. But let’s hope that Mr. Ross decides that this is a chance for him not only to bring the Terps back into the top 10 in the country, but to play in the best conference in the country. Why roll the dice with one of those other programs with questionable people in charge? You know, those coaches who will bolt at the earliest sign of trouble (usually of their own making). Gary Williams makes players better. I challenge anyone to give me a list of more than 3 or 4 guys who did not improve under Gary. I put Gary’s credentials up against any other coach out there and Ross should know he’s going to a great program led by a great coach and with some of the most passionate fans in all of college basketball.

    • charlestonterp
      Jon, you bring nothing of value to this site. Haul Ass. U try to punk everyone with a valid point. I understand ur frustrated. We all are. DBR rocks.




    • mightyterps
      dbr-- i read and contribute to this site alot. your post are on target. your fair thoughts on our programs and teams. please keep them coming.
    • umdFAN
      JON, this is what i posted in a previous post. I assume you did not see it so I repost...:

      How do you know he is doing this? He has posted plenty of information here that has not been available anywhere else, premium or not. Furthermore, you're the only person that mentions Pe'shon Howard on this website. DBR has thus far chosen not to report any names.

      Jon, please do not run off this website's most valued poster by making accusations you can't possibly substantiate.
    • Gregg
      Relax everyone re: DBR and his info. He's had plenty to add to this site that has not been 'taken' from a pay site. And there is no rule that prevents the sharing of information regardless of where it's from. The only thing that's not allowed is a direct posting from a pay site being published on this one.

    • kaze
      Thanks for this, Chrs0049 - We're under a foot and a half of snow here in DC this weekend and watching some Terrapin glory with a comfy bowl of Lipton's noodle soup will be just the ticket. But where's the final?
    • Chrs0049
      Not related to anything (which in itself is an accomplishment in this thread), the 2004 ACC Touney semi final against NC State is going to be on ESPN Classic tomorrow at 5pm. It's one of the secret gems of this decade that doesn't get nearly the pub as it should. I think we were down 19 (?) at half and came back and won. I'm looking forward to rewatching
    • buried in all asst. coach talk and Yow bashing; DBR's link got a nary a response. Here's the relevant passage regarding Mr. Terence Ross:

      "We know other schools are trying to see what his status is. Maryland, to its credit, has been present at his games and is doing all it can to solidify the pledge. Ross did not wish to talk about his recruiting at the National Hoops Festival only saying that he remains committed."

      That is ENCOURAGING!
    • eddienj
      Great point Jeremy. T-Ross will have his jersey hanging from Comcast when it's all said and done!
    • Ricksterps
      Gainesville DBR? I thought you were in upstate NY? You are a traveling man.

      http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/248153.html

      Yet another Duke transfer. No one runs off kids to free up scholarship slots like our man Coach K.

    • DiamondbackRuss
      I was surprised he came back for this season. Thought for sure he'd transfer in the offseason...oh well.
    • Ricksterps
      By doing this before the second semester, will he be illegible to play for someone second semester next season?
    • DiamondbackRuss
      New name on the Terps radar for 2001 is Scottie Wilbekin. He's a 6-foot 2/170 pound combo guard out of Gainesville, Florida. Terps were sending someone down to observe him as his team is playing in a weekend tournament. Don't know if they got out of College Park before the snow hit though.

      Ironically, I live in Gainesville so if things heat up I'll check out one of his games and let u know my thoughts.
    • eddienj
      When we were recruiting Taran Buie and Will Regan I think you were in the Albany area. Now you're in Gainesville just in time for Wilbekin. DBR, man of mystery, one might suspect you are alot more connected to the recruiting scene than you let on. :-)
    • Jon
      Remember when we were gonna get Buie, Epps, and Regan? Recruiting changes so quickly!
    • DiamondbackRuss
      LOL the company I work for is based in Albany. They had me at the corporate office but I asked for a transfer to Gainesville so I could be near my aging mom who had suffered a stroke.

      The fact that the Terps are checking out a kid here is mere co-incidence.
    • Jon
      DBR - Some stuff should stay on the boards because we know where you got this from.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      Huh? One of my co-workers is related to a kid that plays for The Rock he told me this morning.
    • Jon
      Nothing personal I didnt mean to call you out but every time IMS has a report on a new prospect it seems more than mere coincidence your supposed sources tell you about a kid and you post the same thing because it happened with the Nastic kid and yesterday IMS posted about Wilbekin. Its obvious you are on the message board all I ask is stop bringing the info from the payboard here because now that I finally pay for this stuff its weird that you post it for free which makes me look like an idiot for paying for this stuff. I enjoy your posts on basketball here because we have a lot of the same views since neither of us ever get down on the team but the recruiting info shouldn't be poached from the boards.
    • Ricksterps
      There is no poaching from those sites. Anyone who pays for that site can come on here and post anything they like.

      Should you credit the publication with getting said information first? Sure.

      DBR has come up with lots of information on here. Do you think he could have similar sources to that website?

    • mariolucasforthree
      Yeah, I noticed these 'coincidences' also.
    • charlestonterp
      Sorry , email is screwy right now. No Plasma, they have a half life apparently. I would go with dlp or lcd. As far as brands go , the technology is everywhere now and there are many players. Vizio is a good middle of the road brand and your not just paying for a name. I have a 53 inch Hitatchi lcd and have never had a problem. Good Hunting and Merry Xmas
    • DiamondbackRuss
      Thanks for the tips. You're not the first to tell me to avoid plasma.
    • Markmax33
      You will never ever use up your plasma tv. The lifespan is like watching it for 10 years straight. You will buy a tv before. Plasma is much sharper and clearer to begin with anyway!
    • DiamondbackRuss
      Completely off topic, but I'm looking at buying an HDTV during the after Christmas sales. If you've got a brand recommendation I'd love to know about it. So as not to take up space in this thread you can email me at Hobbyist908@aol.com.

      Thanks in advance.
    • charlestonterp
      Glad to do it. You should like Gainesville, I used to live in St. Aug and made the trip to Gator growl yearly. Very Talented town, nudge nudge wink wink
    • Wheels
      Pertinent to our discussions on athletic costs...ignore the anti-playoff title and read the parts on how many programs are financially underwater...

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/18/AR2009121803510.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
    • PC
      I also missed Wheels post. Perhaps if it's too long Jeremy or Greg could post it as a new thread? Sounds like it would generate some good discussion.
    • Ricksterps
      As someone who works in the legal field, no way Gary should start naming names.

      You are right Wheels, he could give more examples. He said money is being paid and grades changed. I think that is a shot across the bow of Calapiri.

      I think what Wheels is getting at is it can look like sour grapes if you don't start getting more specific.

      That post he put up was a very well researched piece. I would love to get it back on the site.
    • Gregg
      I saw the post and I'm not sure why it disappeared. It was a nicely researched post and I'd love to somehow get it back on here.

      On the Gary front, good for him. If more coaches come forward, it may finally shed some light on this problem, but until a publication/web site does the investigative work and busts the Calipari's of the world, nothing will change. The NCAA needs to be embarrassed in order for anything to change.
    • Wheels. I have no idea what happened to your post. I never saw it come through. I was not online for most of the day however. was it particularly long? that may be a reason. can you repost a portion of it?
    • DiamondbackRuss
    • eddienj
      I think you will see other coaches speak out in the future. The General led the way. Guys like Gary will follow. You gotta remember that there has to be some resentment among coaches. They are told by their AD's to run clean programs and win at the same time. Then they see a guy like Calipari cheat and get rewarded with $5 mil per year at a prestigious job.
    • Wheels
      I'd like him to say specific things beyond generalities...he almost did in the interview...but I always hope he'll say "One coach does this, another does this, another does that...I parent told me one school did this..." and so on. He doesn't have to name names at all, but he can give specifics about exactly what is going on. It'd be great. He's so right about USC and their hoops and football...ABC needs USC on Satruday afternoons. That's great. I loved how Charlie Weis called out the media on Pete Carroll, too. I know it was a low blow, but it was so true. ABC needs USC.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      Here's something to take your thoughts off of T-Ross. Mychal Parker doin' work

      http://www.wdnweb.com/articles/2009/12/18/sports/doc4b2aeab9636cf588541863.txt

      This kid is a very good get for Maryland.
    • Wheels
      I typed it in a Word document, so I can repost it. Maybe it was too long. I don't know. It's been removed from the site, though. Glad that someone else saw it...I won't sound crazy when I say that I posted this mini-analysis. Maybe Jeremy or Gregg can shed some light on the missing post.
    • Wheels
      Just tried to repost it and it won't post. What is going on here?
    • Ricksterps
      Where the hell did Wheel's post go?
    • Ricksterps
      Awesome research Wheels. A few observations...

      * UNC is number one with a bullet. Lots of ACC titles and NCs including one of the big two (Mens BB).

      * Terps are somewhere in the top four depending on how you want to parse it.

      * So Miami has 15 sports compared to our 28 but they spend 10 mil more a year? They must be throwing money hand over fist at that football program.

      *The BC AD should be fired :) 44mil in expenditures and 1 acc championship to show for it?
    • Wheels
      Thanks. I don't know where the post went, but at least someone besides me saw it!
    • jonbruns
      Man! Is all that research gone? That is tragic. It was good stuff.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      Evidently Knight spoke about more than just Calipari:

      “Very few people know this, but a kid can play the first semester as a freshman, pass six hours of anything and play in the NCAA tournament without ever attending a class in the second semester. I don’t think that’s right.”

      Thank you NBA for creating the one-and-done era
    • DiamondbackRuss
      Montrose won big yesterday, 70-27, in the opening round of the Iolani Classic. Hairston led Montrose with 20 points and Terrence Ross had 17 points.
    • kaze
      You mean future Terp Terrence Ross.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      Lovin' that positive attitude. He's still committed to UMD, that hasn't changed.

      http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/college/recruiting/2009/12/weekly_recruiting_roundup_107.html
    • Ricksterps
      The reality is Yow has a personality similar to Gary. Neither is going to take any sh*t and both think they are right. It is not a good mix for a great relationship but it needs to work.

      Director cup standings are one indicator but so is the performance of the two premiere sports. Is Yow going to be fired anytime soon? My answer is she and Gary have the same job security. Neither is totally untouchable and, most likely, neither is going anywhere.

      I mentioned her perception outside of our little family but at the end of the day it probably isn't super important. The only people that can get her out of there are the president and the boosters. End of list

      So the bottom line is she needs to step it up and throw some more money around the two big sports. By that same token, Gary needs to get it going a bit himself. Neither are going anywhere so we better hope they both get it right.


    • Gregg
      AP story this evening:

      Bobby Knight said integrity is lacking in college basketball and cited Kentucky coach John Calipari as an example.
      During a fundraiser for the Indiana Basketball Hall of Fame, Knight said he doesn't understand why Calipari is still coaching.
      "We've gotten into this situation where integrity is really lacking and that's why I'm glad I'm not coaching," he said. "You see we've got a coach at Kentucky who put two schools on probation and he's still coaching. I really don't understand that."

      Amen Bob.
    • eddienj
      I commend Knight for being a straight-shooter when he himself is working in the media. Saying that is not gonna help him at his job. But he is The General.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      That Feb. 13th game at Rupp Arena should be interesting with Knight part of the ESPN Game day crew.
    • From a Sun article in 2007: In men’s hoops, assistant Michael Adams is leading the pack at $146,370 while Chuck Driesell follows at $91,500. Poor Keith Booth hasn’t quite hit the $66K mark yet. These salaries are virtually identical to the numbers posted in the Washington Times column. Everyone just moved up a slot.

      By the way, I love Patrick Stevens; but did he really have to go with this headline: "Terps not shelling out for assistants."? Really? Horrendous and lazy puns are the ongoing disgrace of modern journalism.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      The Post via Prisbell takes shots at Gary, The Times via Stevens takes a shot at the AD.
    • aholla3
      Journalists usually dont choose their own headlines. They write the stories and an editor will choose the title. FYI.
    • It's become obvious that Gary Williams succeeds despite the AD & administration; not because of them. Some things never change. Ask Lefty.
    • idkwid
      I remember Lefty and Kehoe having there roundabouts, but all in all, Kehoe was a good AD. Being a good AD requires having a strong personality and even being an A-hole at times.
    • mightyterps
      YEAH, YOU DO HAVE TO WORK IT OUT. BUT BEFORE IT HITS THE BIG NEWS. WE DID NOT AND THAT IS HER FAULT.......MAKING US WORK THRU THIS MAYBE COSTING US RECRUITS. ANY THOUGHTS
    • GERRY
      Not going to jump in to the Yow deal but it seems to me everyone (who wants to) can get their views across with "civility".

      We are a "passionate crowd" here on the Soup. Just ask me about the value of GV to this program and you will get more than you wanted. That's a good thing. I've found the axiom of "you can disagree without being disagreeable" still to be true and relevant. Condescending remarks don't enamor either side's position.

      Let's not be like some Terp fans in the stands "booing those that are in the game" whether is BB, FB or the Athletic dept. Personally, I'm split on Yow. I've read enough here to understand "she not the best nor is she the worst AD". MD is a large, diverse State University with a plethora of NCAA sports programs. Soccer, Lacrosse, Tennis (remember John Lucas was an All-American (?) tennis player, baseball and swimming etc are as important to the AD as BB and FB. I wouldn't want her job. I was chagrined
      to hear about our BB Ass't coaches salary -disparities with others. Obviously, they are
      loyal to Gary and UMD as they could easily go elsewhere for more $.

      On a positive note, how can we influence the AD to beef up their wages.? Might take some thought and effort but probably more promising than some of the latest posts on the Soup.

      Who have Ya'll recruited lately.....to log on to the Soup and "get in the mix". That's one of the things we all can do. I've had two of my golfing buddies from my Tues league tell me they were glad I told them about the Soup and the really like the "chatter".

      Re: Yow.......work it out. When you say "She's pure evil" that doesn't fly. Make your case
      don't just "chuck a spear" into the stands.

      Got Terps.
    • Although it may be true that Yow takes all the sports equally seriously, there are only two sports considered "revenue sports," and that's men's football and basketball. In fact, the money they bring in pays for the 25 other D-1 sports and then some. Which is why the lack of ticket sales in football especially was disheartening to the athletic department. They came about $600,000 short of what they wanted to make this football season, and other teams will feel that next year.
    • jonbruns
      People talk about the revenue sports. But how much more expensive is it to a school to have a D1 Footbal team versus a field hockey team? Debbie Yow should take all sports seriously.
    • Ricksterps
      The football team pays for itself and then some. The field hockey team cost the AD money each year.

      If UMD didn't have a BB or football team then the university would have to come out of pocket each year to run all the other sports. Even the women's BB team is a money loser.
    • jonbruns
      Wasn't sure about that. I just know that a lot of schools dont field a football team cause it is too expensive.
    • Ricksterps
      Yea, the schools that aren't getting those fat TV contract funds each year struggle. You won't see any BCS conference team folding their tent.

      Between that and all that bowl money they are pretty flush. That is the big reason you won't see a playoff any time soon. Right now the BCS schools get almost all of the bowl money. The ACC divides that bowl money evenly between their member schools.
    • johnnyrhodesscholar
      I finally accepted women's basketball as a sport and gave the Lady Terps a place in my heart when they beat Duke to win the national Championship. I even went so far as to tell my now-wife that I would not hesitate to procreate with Marissa Coleman, and I lay awake at night thinking how I can mold my daughter into a pure shooter like Kristi Toliver. Yet, if I'm being honest, in any given season, I'd rather the men's team get one quality win (Villanova perhaps), than have the women's team win a national championship. Yow needs to realize, that outside of players' families and maybe 200 other people in the world, most Maryland fans would trade a women's national championship for free tickets to an ACC men's game.
    • jonbruns
      I would DEFINITELY procreate with Marissa Coleman.
    • eddienj
      Amen brother. I would take a Final Four by our men's hoops team over 25 national titles in one year from other sports.
    • spmd
      not trying to rip on you because you're a good terp and all, but seriously i think you're a little uninformed when it comes to the good doctor. she's pure evil
    • spmd
      are you seriously citing the effing directors cup? tell me you're not doing that? do you know what school has won the directors cup every year for the last 13 years? Stanford! Do they have a great athletics program? Apparently they do, but if you asked ANYONE who they thought had the best collegiate athletics Stanford probably wouldnt get mentioned in the first 25 responses. Why? Because nobody cares they have a great women's golf team! NOBDOY CARES! Maryland's top 10 directors cup finishes that Dr. Yao wants to cite is because of field hockey, competitive cheer, etc. We have the lowest paid assistant men's bball coaches in the acc. meanwhile, our beloved athletic director is giving a ridiculous and unnecessary coach in waiting title to James Franklin, who we will likely to have buy out next year costing our school 1.5 million. well done doctor
    • Wheels
      See my post under Rick. She gets no credit for any of NCs won during her tenure? Gary was responsible for her balancing the budget? She's ridden Ralph and Gary's coattails to upgrade Byrd and build Comcast? I only look like an ardent Yow supporter because so many of you have taken such a preposterous stance. You all act like balancing a budget is easy.

      I think the NYT or WSJ published an article a year or two ago documenting how many D1 schools were in the red almost exclusively because of football. Football, not hoops, is the driver of revenue in college athletics. Simply look at MD's athletic department in the 15 years before and after she came. Did any of the ADs during the 1980s heydays for hoops and football balance budgets or win as many titles?

      Her results speak for themselves. As for the Yow is a Top 10 AD, well, check out the Director's Cup rankings. It's about results. What else can you measure it on? I don't care about in fighting or people hurting people's feelings. Jim Weaver down at VT is just as brass knuckles as Yow, but it's hard to argue with balanced budgets and wins. Coaches always want more than they have. That's what they do. Someone has to tell people no. Who else is going to do it?

      As for my strident responses to your posts, recall that my introduction to you on the Soup came on the heels of you expressing your disgust for people here. I just don't buy the logic that she undermines people who she expects to win. What's in it for her to bite off her nose to spite her face? If they don't win, she gets fired.

      I can't even respond to the keep my ear to the ground comment. I live in New England, don't buy memberships onto TSN type outlets (breaking news! Breaking news! Join now). I trust DBR for recruiting info. I trust Harry for booster info. Why...because they are right more than wrong. They don't peddle in speculation. Harry's posted on her before about Yow's status. Take it from him...not me...Yow isn't going anywhere.

      So...I am done with this tiring string. I'm no more of a Yow backer than I am a Gary or Ralph backer. I try to call it like I see it. When I am wrong, I admit it. That's been my M.O. on here for 3 years.
    • terps96
      Minor thing, but I recall reading in "March to Madness" that Gary didn't want to leave Cole for Comcast because he thought that the home court advantage would be lessoned (right or wrong) so I don't think she rode his coattail to build Comcast
    • Him being right that Cole was a better homecourt advantage DOES NOT mean that he didnt make MD Basketball a top 10 program in college hoops that has a fan base that can support a 17k arena. Comcast is the House that Gary built. Its a disgrace (Tows disgrace) his name isn't already on the court.
    • Chrs0049
      "It doesn't matter that Boomer Esiason "forced" her to hire Ralph. Your argument is essentially that she is a strong armed dictator who gets pushed around. Which is it? Didn't she hire Sasha also?"

      - Please stop putting words in my mouth - I never said she was a "strong armed dictator". I also never said she was "pushed around"; I said she was forced to hire Fridge.
      - Sasho came to CP in '93; Yow in '94 I believe. Here's the Wiki (may or may not be accurate): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasho_Cirovski

      "I can't verify any of your other assertions about not talking to any of her coaches or feeding websites info...and neither can you. Find me some solid on the record info...not TSN-type gossip. I do think, in retrospect, that the Franklin deal was a bad one. At the time I thought it was a good idea for recruiting alone."

      - That's right, that sort of info does not make it's way into newspapers. It just doesn't. But if you keep your ear close to the ground you know it to be true. Maybe Harryfish can speak to this - but boosters were definitely asked last year to help buy Gary out. Of course that isn't going to show up in a newspaper, but it's true.

      "Sorry to tell you that she probably one of the top 10 ADs in college sports."

      - You need to back this up. I am willing to listen why. Please name her accomplishments. Why is she better than 300 other ADs? But obviously you see how impassioned I am on this subject, so making a blanket statement like that is not going to get me on your side.

      "You are totally ignorant as to the relationship between athletic revenue and university revenue. You think that the $10M in hoops revenue goes to the General Fund? The athletic department controls all revenue it receives. The only thing that high profile football or hoops programs have been proven to statistically affect on the University side in a positive way is that the number of applicants to the university increase after national championships (called The Flutie Effect). Otherwise, the relationship between AD and schools is decidedly one direction...the schools ALWAYS bail out athletic departments not the other way around. (there is also evidence that alumni giving increases with athletic success, but most of that giving gets earmarked for athletics not general education...so the university doesn't end up getting much even from sports induced alumni giving)."

      - Forgive me, I did not make this clear in my first post. What I was trying to say is that the revenue that we make from basketball/football directly supports and funds all other 25 non revenue sports.

      "Finally Chr0049...to balance out your tantrum a bit...why don't you give us the positives that have happened under Yow. Or are you going to be one of those hacks that says the coaches get the credit for successes but she gets the credit for failure? You want to pick 6 points as evidence that she should go, and some of those points are high school girly complaints. Oh no, poor Sahsa, Gary, and Ralph...Debbie doesn't play nice. Boo-hoo...but thank god that some group of Evil Boosters can control her!"

      - I'm dying for someone to name her accomplishments. Anyone.
      - Some of my points are girly complaints. Excellent. I have no rebuttal for this.
      - Um, so let me get this straight: the three most important coaches on campus don't get along with the AD and that's not a giant red flag for you?

      "Evans not getting into MD wasn't Yow's decision. It was the faculty. And that Worthington lady's dumb ass did MD a great favor by hounding Gus's handlers. USF is in a mess now."

      - When I brought up Evans, I was talking about the incident in which she was "unaware" of his criminal background and decided the first time to bring this up would be to the press. This led to a SI (cover?) story about how Gary was desperate and reaching for recruits with sketchy backgrounds. After that broke, Evans thought it best not to attend here.
      - Kathy Worthington really has no interaction w/ the Men's bball team. She didn't do anything to get rid of Gilchrist (who I never cited). She also has never won a national title (heyyyooo)

      "So...poor little meek Mote...can't stand up to the big bad Debbie Yow. You make no sense and come across as just a pissed off, illogical fool. Your rationale has so many holes, I'd say it's Gumpian. Glad to know that you've been itching to start fights with me. Are you 15 years old or something?"

      Wheels you take the montra "Internet: Serious Business" thing to another level. I was trying to make a light hearted reference to our scuttle last week (which did not go over well apparently). I'm not itching to start fights with anyone. I just have a very strong opinions on some things and this is one of them. I would LOVE for you to point out the pitfalls in my logic instead of just saying that. That's what a debate is and that's what this forum can be used for. I'm not going to get offended if you disagree with something I say, and you shouldn't either. Just because I'm attacking your arguments, doesn't mean I'm attacking you.

      I'll leave everyone with this: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/11/debbie_yow_discusses_friedgen.html
    • eddienj
      If I have to hear Debbie Yow say "all 27 sports" one more time I'm gonna puke.
    • spmd
      honestly wheels, you and anyone else that take a pro-yow stance will end up looking like an idiot. the facts speak for themselves. for every 1 good thing you claim yow has done for the school or athletic department, myself or someone else could probably give you 5 bad things. she's an awful ad. her crowning achievement, balancing the budget, happened riding the success of the men's basketball program, led by the man she's undermined for the last 16 years.

      it's not just about not getting along with sasha, gary, fridge. i dont care if they dont invite her over to their backyard barbeque. its the fact that its HER JOB to do everything within her power to support them to ensure they can reach maximum success.
    • mariolucasforthree
      She hired the competitive cheerleading coach!
    • Wheels
      Chrs0049...

      So, um, I didn't know that Debbie Yow actually ran the entire University of Maryland. Does she get credit then helping to make MD a Top 20 public university? I get that you're angry, and I actually agree that she needs to pay these guys more; but your selective picking of evidence ignores all of the excellence that has come out of that department over the past 15 years.

      It doesn't matter that Boomer Esiason "forced" her to hire Ralph. Your argument is essentially that she is a strong armed dictator who gets pushed around. Which is it? Didn't she hire Sasha also? I can't verify any of your other assertions about not talking to any of her coaches or feeding websites info...and neither can you. Find me some solid on the record info...not TSN-type gossip. I do think, in retrospect, that the Franklin deal was a bad one. At the time I thought it was a good idea for recruiting alone. Sorry to tell you that she probably one of the top 10 ADs in college sports.

      You are totally ignorant as to the relationship between athletic revenue and university revenue. You think that the $10M in hoops revenue goes to the General Fund? The athletic department controls all revenue it receives. The only thing that high profile football or hoops programs have been proven to statistically affect on the University side in a positive way is that the number of applicants to the university increase after national championships (called The Flutie Effect). Otherwise, the relationship between AD and schools is decidedly one direction...the schools ALWAYS bail out athletic departments not the other way around. (there is also evidence that alumni giving increases with athletic success, but most of that giving gets earmarked for athletics not general education...so the university doesn't end up getting much even from sports induced alumni giving).

      Finally Chr0049...to balance out your tantrum a bit...why don't you give us the positives that have happened under Yow. Or are you going to be one of those hacks that says the coaches get the credit for successes but she gets the credit for failure? You want to pick 6 points as evidence that she should go, and some of those points are high school girly complaints. Oh no, poor Sahsa, Gary, and Ralph...Debbie doesn't play nice. Boo-hoo...but thank god that some group of Evil Boosters can control her!

      Evans not getting into MD wasn't Yow's decision. It was the faculty. And that Worthington lady's dumb ass did MD a great favor by hounding Gus's handlers. USF is in a mess now.

      So...poor little meek Mote...can't stand up to the big bad Debbie Yow. You make no sense and come across as just a pissed off, illogical fool. Your rationale has so many holes, I'd say it's Gumpian. Glad to know that you've been itching to start fights with me. Are you 15 years old or something?
    • Ricksterps
      I agree with a few points of your argument Chrs.

      Yow's biggest failing is her relationship with Gary and Fridge. I am sure that they are not easy to get along with but that is part of her job. She needs to make nice with Gary. She just does. He is the meal ticket. Do you let Gary do whatever the F' he wants? Of course not. But you support him in any way possible.

      She has been a good steward of the university's money. Fine, but that can't come at the expense of our BB program. If you can be good at field hockey AND men's BB, then go for it. But if it's either/or the choice is clear.

      We could win five straight women's BB NCs and it won't matter to most if the mens team is on the decline.

      Here is the biggest thing she has against her. Public perception. At least outside of our fan base. You know what I heard today from the other ACC alums today about this whole story? Of course you don't pay the assistant coaches because your AD hates Gary. They don't know her name or how many titles she has won in the "other" sports. They just know she doesn't support Gary. That is her persona outside of College Park.

      Now whether that is true or not becomes less and less import over time. She needs to address the perception that she is secretly trying to undermine our BB program.
    • Wheels
      "She needs to address the perception that she is secretly trying to undermine our BB program."

      Yes, because it is a perception...as silly as it is. Yes, Debbie Yow wants to save her job by secretly burrying the BB and FB teams! She's an evil genius! What a better way to keep your job than to make sure that everyone else fails? It's so ridiculous on its face that I can't believe anyone peddles it.

      You're right...her success is completely intertwined with the success of the FB and BB programs. To suggest (and I know you are not) that she secretly wants to destroy them in some power struggle to make herself look good would mean that she has to be clinically insane and that her boss is similarly clinically insane. It's a bad conspiracy. It also makes me wonder whether some of this is driven by gender stereotypes. I wonder if she'd be getting these essentially vanity complaints if she was a he.
    • JMS
      Regarding Yow, Amen Chris…On another topic, Calipari was known as the “bag man” to high school coaches in South Jersey because he showed up at Billy Martin’s door with a bag of money and bought him for Pitt, so I am pretty confident things have not changed with him.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      Now that we see the salaries of our assistant coahces, now the people who felt that Maryland should have paid Delonte Hill more than $300k/year to be an assistant just so the Terps could have gotten Michael Beasley can stfu about that.
    • mightyterps
      This is a statement of Yow's style. You think she didn't know this. What a downgrade to our university. It makes our program look second rate. no lower then that.
    • eddienj
      As far as I know we are talking about the University of Maryland at College Park. Those of us that grew up in the area know that Maryland Basketball is the end-all, be-all. It is not merely a college basketball team. It is our state team. The dynamics of the Baltimore/DC area is such that basketball will always be the sport. How many great hoopsters come out of the area as compared to athletes in other sports? It's not even close. Maryland basketball will always be THE TEAM at Maryland. Basketball is the sport played by the kids. Our football team can go to a BCS bowl every year but if Gary lost to a mid-major, there would be more conversation about that than the football. This is why I don't understand how the athletic department is run. They are missing the point.
    • Chrs0049
      Oh good Wheels -- I was hoping that we'd have something to get into this week

      "Fire Yow? Well, that's a bit reactionary, isn't it?

      The "Fire Yow" sentiment is not reactionary at all. She's been handcuffing our AD for years. I would bet that a decent percentage of MD fans have felt this way for a long time.

      "Ruined both major sports? How when she was technically at the helm when both peaked in the early 2000s? She hired Ralph."

      My exact words were she submarined both programs. Basketball:
      1. The handling of the Kathy Worthington/ Gary fiasco last season was a disgrace and a joke that should have handled internally.
      2. Tried to gather the funding last season to buy out Gary - this backfired miserably when many boosters said that if Gary goes, they go.
      3. The public dispute about the Evans incident and the repeated lack of help of getting recruits cleared and not afraid of getting past Maryland's admissions/standards
      4. Rarely speaks to Gary Williams -- anyone w/in the AD knows this to be true. Men's Basketball is the meal ticket for this university (10.7m in revenue!) - how the fuck can your AD not get along/support/communicate with the head basketball coach?

      Football:
      1. She "hired" Fridge because she was basically forced to. He came on the recomendations of many top boosters (who went to Mote) and they forced her hand on this. He was not her choice
      2. Gave Franklin the 1mil contract as head coach in waiting. Why? Where was he going? Who was going to steal him from us? That terrible contract basically prevented us from firing him and Fridge.
      3. CONSISTENTLY MISMANAGES MGN funds -- oh like the time this year where she spend tens of thousands of dollars to take the band to Durham for the Duke game.

      Misc:
      1. Did not attend either of the two Soccer national championship games
      2. Has tried to oust Sasha (who like Gary does not get along with her at all) and failed (thankfully)
      3. Wants all of the attention on programs where she had hired the coach (W's Bball)
      4. Actually feeds TTK and TerrapinTimes information on recruits and etc. iand in return the site basically acts as her second voice. She controls what gets said and how. Unfiltered information is not allowed, anything negative against her is banned and the poster of said comment is banned.

      "We've been over this before. The people calling for her ouster don't understand business or strategic management. Unless football and basketball spend the next 3 years in the tank, she is untouchable."

      Enlighten me about busness management. If this was a private business, she would have been fired years ago. She's protected by Mote who is really too scared to fire a Women AD because of the supposed backlash that would come with it. What a joke.

      And strategic managment?! Are you kidding me?!?! Re-read that article! That's fuckin sick. Yes, it IS a good idea to underpay your premium sport's coaches. Sounds strategic to me. But who knows, maybe wrestling and field hockey are on the verge of becoming the most popular college sports in the country. When that happens, I'll be the first one to shut up and Maryland will reap the rewards. Until then, have fun winning meaningless titles with your 25 other sports (1 team!)
    • mariolucasforthree
      Wow, that ladies and gentleman is what I call a rebuttal. Nice job, Chris.
    • jonbruns
      SHE TRIED TO FIRE SASHA?!?!!! WHA? She should definitely be fired.
    • johnnyrhodesscholar
      Agreed, Sasha is the top soccer coach in the country. He recruits extremely well, the team performs extremely well, and he coaches a style of play that is both fun to watch and attractive to the pros. I am proud to say I was at the Terps national championship in Cary, NC. If Yow was there I would have seduced her, won her heart, and then manipulated her to get the men's basketball assistants more money.
    • Ricksterps
      Wheels, I was referring to the incoming fire Yow part of the story. I knew that was coming. I knew you wouldn't give her a free pass.

      As you read in the article, Gary has tried to get raises the last two years and been denied. You know she is well aware of what the going rate is for assistants in the ACC.

      College sports has changed the past few years. You have these small schools now spending real money to produce good teams.

      We HAVE to make basketball a priority. That means committing significant funds to the program. You want to be a national power then spend like one.

      I have always been middle of the road on Yow. Didn't love her, didn't hate her. I think it's fine that we excel in many non-revenue producing sports. But the priority is the two sports that support the rest.

      We need to start keeping up with our ACC brethren financially if we ever want to compete with them athletically.
    • Wheels
      Come on Rick...you should know that I try to call it like I see it. One of the things that Ralph did really well was to go to bat for his assistants. His assistants probably make market average. This is something that Gary should make a ton of noise about, get into the media...tell everyone what a competitive disadvantage this puts MD in.

      Frankly, I am surprised that Yow wouldn't be more proactive about addressing this. Everyone is so Title IX worried that I can't believe that she didn't look at the disparities and fix it. Clearly she was asleep at the switch on this.

      I am sure we'll start hearing reports about supplemental income that is generated through camps and what not, but this certainly doesn't look good. You gotta at least match market pay. Even if Booth has a little coin left from his brief NBA career, you need to pay more.

      Fire Yow? Well, that's a bit reactionary, isn't it? Ruined both major sports? How when she was technically at the helm when both peaked in the early 2000s? She hired Ralph. We've been over this before. The people calling for her ouster don't understand business or strategic management. Unless football and basketball spend the next 3 years in the tank, she is untouchable.
    • idkwid
      I noticed the part of the article that said that each assistant can get a $10,000 good citizenship bonus if none of the the players get arrested opr suspended, so Dino cost them a total of $30,000
    • DiamondbackRuss
      At least nobody here suggested that Yow didn't fight hard on Dino's behalf to avoid suspension...thus saving her department $30k.
    • jonbruns
      Alright. Certainly the salaries of the assistants looks bad. But really Booth, Chucky D and Rob Ehsan are pretty new to the coaching ranks. I am quite sure that Coach Hahn, Patsos and Dave Dickerson were paid well. I am not sure the tenure of the womens assistant coaches, but maybe they have a lot of experience/have been with the team a while? I dont really have a problem with an assistant coach who has been with the womens team for 8 years and has some coaching experience making more than an assistant coach with the mens team who has been coaching for 2. Thing is our coaching staff has turned over a bit recently.
    • Chrs0049
      "Elsewhere on Maryland's staff, Driesell is guaranteed $129,468, while Booth is assured $99,881. Collectively, Maryland's three assistants are guaranteed less money this season than Virginia assistant Ritchie McKay ($310,000)."

      "Maryland employs Tina Langley ($134,185), Marlin Chinn ($120,090) and David Adkins ($100,090) as women's assistants. Langley's base pay is $105,745, Chinn's is $91,650 and Adkins' is $83,650.

      The Maryland women's assistants compare favorably - but are not outliers - to the rest of their ACC peers in guaranteed compensation. Langley ranks seventh among the 24 women's assistants, while Chinn is ninth and Adkins is 15th.

      Langley is in her ninth season as a college coach, Chinn is in his 12th season in the college game and Adkins is in his first season at the level. Langley is in her second year at Maryland and first as Frese's top assistant; Chinn and Adkins are both in their first season with the Terps."

      So Adkins is A FIRST YEAR WOMEN'S ASSISTANT and makes more than Booth and Ehsan. WELL DONE
    • turtlepin67
      I loved the logic that the salaries of current assistants are frozen, but new hires can be paid market value. I'll refrain from getting political/anti-government here, but this is so wrong.
    • Ricksterps
      Chucky has been coaching for 20 years. We simply cannot have the lowest paid asst coaches in the ACC. Unacceptable.
    • Ricksterps
      There was leaked information here in Raleigh that Chris Collins and Wojo make about 750,000 a year. Talking with one of the Duke boosters I work with he said "that's in the ball park". Geeesh.
    • Chrs0049
      God I'm having so much fun with this: http://www.sga.umd.edu/documents/FY2010%20Detail%20Budget.pdf

      Yow's Salary: $382,575
    • terps96
      They probably make less then the players at Kentucky do....no wonder they can't recruit!
    • DiamondbackRuss
      LMBAO that's funny
    • terps96
      Damn...that has to be one of the most embarrising MD related stories to have come out in a long time.
    • Chrs0049
      "The value doesn't translate into pay; Ehsan is the second-lowest paid men's or women's assistant among the ACC's eight public schools. Only N.C. State women's assistant Jon Harper - who, as the husband of Wolfpack coach Kellie Harper, does not draw a salary - receives less.

      Ehsan's guaranteed compensation of $66,440 includes a base salary of $60,000, an automobile allowance of $5,000 and a cell phone stipend of $1,440.

      He makes 50 percent less than 12 men's assistants from ACC public schools and earns less than Eric Konkol ($81,120) and Michael Huger ($72,800) - assistants at nearby George Mason, a strong CAA program that nonetheless does not enjoy the same financial resources as Maryland."

      Yeah that's the same guy that pretty much delivered our entire '10 class. Awesome
    • idkwid
      This is an open invitation to have our AC's raided. Now we will not only lose recruits, we wll lose Booth, Dreisell and Ehsan. The weirdness of the pay freeze is that MD can hire a new assistant at $200,000, but can't raise Eshans salary from $60,000 to $90,000. Another liberal government that can't comprehend aimple market economics, way to go O'Malley!!!!
    • If Rob is only making 66 grand, I wouldn't blame him one bit if he left for a school that would pay him his true value.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      All the men's assistants, except for maybe Harrington, need to be paid more immediately. The program generates $10+ million a year for the university. The women's program generates how much? Coach Rob went from graduate assistant to assistant coach so that's probably why his salary is so low. Booth didn't have coaching experience so he probably started low and has moved up. But Chuck had experience. No way a WBB assistant...who isn't even alum...should make more scrilla than Chuck.

      This situation needs to be fixed as soon as possible...where are the AD's priorities? Yeesh.

    • Chrs0049
      Yeah its like 10.7 mil in revenue a year - 4th in the ACC behind UNC, Duke, NC State
    • Chrs0049
      Ah damnit DBR - beat me to it!

      God I can't wait for the Kathy Worthington-esque screw up that's bound to come from our AD this time. I'm sure they'll put together a rushed and hurried response to the press that throws Gary and our boosters under the bus together all while blaming the economy or some shit like that
    • Ricksterps
      So you have a first year coach at UVA that brought in an assistant that makes almost more than all of our assistants combined? Damn
    • DiamondbackRuss
      Looks like several of us found the same article at about the same time lol.

      This link is to another article that includes a statement from the Athletic Department http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/d1scourse/2009/dec/17/marylands-response-to-salary-questions/
    • Ricksterps
      http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/dec/17/terps-not-shelling-out/

      Don't think this doesn't play a role in our recruiting. All you need to know about this article is we rank LAST in the ACC in assistant coaching salary. You don't get the private school numbers but those are definitely higher than ours.

      Assistants play a huge role in recruiting and you generally get what you pay for.

      "He makes 50 percent less than 12 men's assistants from ACC public schools and earns less than Eric Konkol ($81,120) and Michael Huger ($72,800) - assistants at nearby George Mason, a strong CAA program that nonetheless does not enjoy the same financial resources as Maryland.

      Elsewhere on Maryland's staff, Driesell is guaranteed $129,468, while Booth is assured $99,881. Collectively, Maryland's three assistants are guaranteed less money this season than Virginia assistant Ritchie McKay ($310,000). "

      Wheels, get ready to defend Yow on this one...
    • Chrs0049
      I am about to post a link that is "new thread worthy"

      http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/dec/17/terps-not-shelling-out/

      "Keith Booth and Robert Ehsan are the only men's assistants in the ACC who have guaranteed annual compensation of less than $100,000. The men's assistants combine to make less than the women's assistants at Maryland - the only public school in the conference for which that is true."

      "The women's assistants are guaranteed $354,365 - nearly $60,000 more than three men's assistants. When the salaries for Williams and women's head coach Brenda Frese are included, the men's coaches earn more than $1 million than the women's coaches."

      Please do yourself a favor and read this article. Every time we want to get angry at Gary for his "recruiting failures" we need to take a step back and look at the big picture. Debbie Yow HAS to go. She has submarined the two profit making sports on campus in effort to become competitive and overpay for coaches in Wrestling and Field Hockey. It's a joke. Way to bite the hand that feeds.

      I think we can accept this to be true:
      1. Gary has approx. 5 years of coaching left
      2. He will likely be left to leave on his own terms
      3. The search for the next Men's basketball coach will be the most important hire in Maryland Athletics history

      That being said, we will fail if Yow is here and is in charge of leading the search. She needs to be fired long before Gary leaves, or else our program will never get out of the gutter.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      OMG this has to change. The assistant coaches for the WBB team collectively make more than the assistants for the MBB team? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/dec/17/terps-not-shelling-out/
    • Wheels
      Jon...I am not a labor lawyer but I do know that the one and done rule is not a NCAA rule. It's a NBA rule, which means that the rule was collectively bargained (e.g., the NBA and NBAPA agreed to the restriction). The argument against the age restriciton (in both the NFL and NBA) is that the age restriction is an arbitrary barrier to trade (or to ply one's trade), which would violate anti-trust type laws.

      What the NFL argued, quite effectively it turns out, is that age is a job related requirement, that people under the age of 20 are not physically capable of performing jobs in the NFL. In essense, they will get hurt and destroy their careers. The NBA made the same argument, but it is a lot less persuasive than the NFL. The courts usually don't like to overturn collectively bargained agreements, so the burden of proof is high for people trying to break the rule. But for every Brandon Jennings or Kevin Garnett there is a Kwame Brown or some other idiot kid who made a bad choice. The really bad side effect of the age restriction for hoops more so than football is that it clearly makes the NCAA nothing but a vo-tech for the NBA.

      I think the NCAA could enforce a minimum participation requirement for anyone accepting a scholarship. You have to agree to the terms or repay the costs. Let's say that the NCAA allowed schools to grant minimum two year scholarships, where the student had to agree in writing to play out their 2 year commitment or repay the costs of the scholarship (look at what our armed forces do). This would discourage some kids from coming to college and encourage them to enter the NBA draft or go overseas.

      The NCAA is so strange. They do crazy things like the BCS to protect their finances but then don't protect their financial interests with hoops by allowing the NBA to set this rule that hits the NCAA's pocket.
    • idkwid
      instead of an age requirement they can have a perfectly legal educational requirement of 2 years of college.
    • jonbruns
      I think the worst decision for College b-ball is the "one and done rule". First off, I am not sure if it is even constitutionally legal, but that is another point. These kids should be able to go straight to the pros. The fact that they are forced to go to college for a year (or go to Europe) just makes the whole "student athlete" thing a complete sham. In fact, the best thing for college bball would probably be a rule like baseball. You can go pro out of high school but if you go to college you have to stay there until you're a junior.
    • I agree with all of you about this, college basketball is corrupt and unjust. However, I tend to side with the players a little more than most about this stuff. Yes, they get special treatment. But they deserve it! Gary and the Fridge make millions of dollars a year, the teams are sponsored, they bring millions of dollars in revenues for the school, and all the players get are those perks. Yes they get the little scooters to ride around campus and an insane amount of clothing, but considering the money they bring in, it's a pittance.
    • Gregg
      It's the age old argument, but the players get over $100,000 over 4/5 years to go to school for free. Those who still pay student loans don't have a lot of sympathy that the players aren't allowed to drive around in Escalades with rolls of cash. No matter what you believe, it's not legal to 'pay' these players anything, so that's what we are dealing with. You can side with the player all you want, but the coaches have rules to follow and the NCAA has rules to enforce. It's just too bad they don't enforce those rules. If the players deserve additional compensation, then do away with the rule... if you don't, then enforce the damn rule.
    • Markmax33
      I think everyone agrees they should get compensated if they are making millions for the school, but the issue is the enforcement of the rule and who and how you penalize the people who break it. How is Calipari still coaching with the things he linked to? How does UMD get a 3 year TV ban and destroy a program?
    • chiterp
      I will get away from this T.Ross bullshit for a second (i need a good christmas)...and get into Fontan for a second. It looks like GW and the MD coaching crew are losing faith in Bowie and/or Tucker.... Consequently, the coaching staff is looking to solidify its point guard availability for '10-'11.... Sure, we will have Terrell Stoglin but he is a frosh and will need time to develop.

      Enter Fontan who scored 15 per as a freshman in Fordham. If we get him (and to be honest, there is probably only a 25% chance that we will, given our recruiting woes that will last as long as fuckers like Calipari and co breathe as college coaches), then we have a reliable/effective point guard who can work with T. Ross (yeah right...lol), J-Dub, Parker, Sugar Mosley, Padgett, Dino Gregory and the rest of the gang.

      What happens to the Cliff and/or the Bowie? Sure, they will get some playing time...but, damn, I remember thinking last year (especially when we played Miami at Miami) that Bowie and Tucker were going to lead us someday to the promise land. Shit, Tucker may not pan out (although, every game is an opportunity for him) but Bowie is from Greenbelt...not too far from the Beltway mall and Bennigans and Jasper's...and Spring Hill lake apartments where cops really define what 'harassment' and 'fucking with a college kid' is all about.... I was hoping that Bowie (who was a ball boy as a toddler) would give us another great story of a kid who loves basketball and ends up running the Terps BBall team....

      With his game all jacked up right now, i have little faith in that happening...and that is so unfortunate.

      Again, I am speculating a great deal. Dude may shine next year. Hell, there are still chances for him to shine this year...

      I guess, the fact that MD is looking for a point guard now just tells me that they are losing faith in him.

      I wish i felt differently, but I get that sentiment.

      Shit happens I guess.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      I believe Jio Fontan would have to sit out one year per transfer rules.
    • idkwid
      They are looking for a freshman point guard while he will be a senior, there is nothing unusual with that
    • Gregg
      You all are right. Until the NCAA starts to police itself, this kind of thing will continue to happen. I still think Calipari is filthy to the core, but he does what he does because he does not have to pay a price for it. Any investigations are done after the fact and he's usually off to another school by then. He still gets his money and the players still go to the NBA and nobody cares when the NCAA 'takes away' the illegal wins.

      Blame the NCAA.
    • kaze
      Well, hello again from Purgatory. Calipari's not the devil, he's just the living embodiment of the NCAA. Root all you want, you know in your heart that college sports is corrupt right to the core. The kids in the upper echelons of college football and hoops are to a shameful extent exploited children, and the exploiters are all in it for the old reasons. Gary's an honest man. If he loses Terrence Ross to the likes of Calipari, who can skip from school to school leaving others to hold the bag while he goes on to bigger bucks on a bigger stage, there's no shame in that. Better to be able to look yourself in the mirror.

      And johnnyrhodescholar, you speak for me tonight.

      Go Terps.

    • Wheels
      Recruiting is all about fit...fit with the school, the coach, the teammates, the university. It's no different than companies recruiting for jobs in the real world. The dynamics are the same. Much like companies tell you everything you want to hear, so do college coaches.

      The big difference is that these kids do get to spend time with the teammates, but the school does make the party at the visit seem like it's a party like that every day. I think the lure of the NBA really sways these kids, and I am sure that's what Calipari sells these kids. Playing time isn't an issue because his teams are revolving doors. He makes no bones about the fact his players will not only NOT graduate but will only be there for a year or two at the most. He's dropped the pretense that the NCAA is about student athletes. He sells the NBA. The NBA is a business and so is college basketball. Not a lot of coaches go there...at least not in public...but Calipari does.

      Hopefully, Gary and his staff keep selling MD...not saying what the other guys don't have...but what's great about MD. Don't go the negative recruiting route about what's wrong with everyone else as a contrast to what's great about MD. That doesn't work. Continue to sell him on what's great about MD. Act like no one else is even in the picture.
    • spmd
      i lived in charleston for a year. i had a friend down there going to CofC who was from Cincinatti. We were talking about college bball one time when I mentioned how dirty I thought Memphis was. He was like- its funny you mention that, one of my best friends from home plays golf on the women's team there. She told him and i quote: "the players all drive luxury cars, bmw, mercedes, lexus. when they go out they carry hundreds of dollars in cash. they live in a mansion. and they rent out bars all the time. they also never go to class and people take the tests for them". read into that what you will. but i dont doubt any of it. and this kid wouldnt blow smoke either.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      Sounds like "The U" back in the days lol
    • charlestonterp
      spmd , where did you live. Spend any time at ACs
    • johnnyrhodesscholar
      Don't get me wrong, all I want for Christmas is TRoss to sign a LOI to UMD, but something occurred to me. A lot of us get very emotional about recruits. We want them to come to MD, we are hurt if they go somewhere else, we are furious when a guy who seems sleazy seems to horde them. All natural emotions when you see the Terps losing to teams that seem to consistently recruit higher rated players than Maryland. It's even more painful when the staff invests so much time and energy in a recruit only to see someone else swoop in at the last minute. It's like spending all night at a party talking up this girl, and then right as she's about to step into your place, some dude in a eagle talon (dating myself) swoops in and whisks her away (the guy has herpes, so she's gonna get hers don't worry). But I digress...Let's say we got the top 5 recruits every year. They'd all come play for a year (maybe two), pile up final fours like dirty laundry, and go on to bigger and better things. Sure it would be fun to have the most talented team in the country, but wouldn't it be pretty shallow to win that way. I guess there are a lot of Yankee fans in the world, so I'm probably off base, but it's not for me. Instead of pining for more talented players, I'm going to save my energy to support whatever players end up putting on a Terps jersey.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      I'm not greedy, I'll settle for one McD AA every 3 years and a couple of 4-star recruits in every class.
    • charlestonterp
      Cincy getting routed by UAB, how does that happen
    • eddienj
      I don't know about Calipari being an outright cheater. If that was the case, he would've been caught already. I think he is a master of circumventing the rules and living in the gray area. His recent record both W-L's and sending kids to the NBA doesn't hurt him either. Those of us who've been to the circus see him on TV and see right through his self-promoting, used-car salesman jive. But to 18-year old kids he might seem like their ticket to a payday.
    • Chrs0049
      DBR -- I remember last year the Wash Post had a recruiting video spotlight on Ross and he said initially that his school of choice was Louisville. I don't remember him ever being linked to Memphis

      Ricksterps -- Calipari has a good history w/ point guards (Rose, Wall), but Ross is a SG/SF. Even the offense that he runs (dribble drive) doesn't play to Ross' primary strengths (he would EXCEL however in the flex). Can't see him telling Ross that he'd be the next John Wall.

      Also love how the KY people are talking about how they should scout him before they offer him to make sure he's any good and that he may be a sixth man on their team. Maryland would love this kid and appreciate him soo much more than they would
    • idkwid
      AFA Kentucky, how many kids have committed to them and how many scholarships do they have left? Who has commited to tem, any other SG?
    • DiamondbackRuss
      Memphis mentioned in this February article http://theshiver.com/2009/02/2292/

      and here too lol sorry I couldn't help myself http://turtle-soup.com/wp/2009/04/24/sgsf-terrance-ross-commits-for-2010/#comment-8666995
    • GERRY
      All these T.Ross "Gyrations" give credence to what I said earlier (repeat in a moment).
      There may be cause for the NCAA to have a "coaching seminar". Call them all in to the GA. Dome. Let them know, that you (NCAA) know there needs to be some "rules changes" on recruiting. Solicit the coaches comments. Make it "town hall" style. Have 3 coaches from each conference represent the conference. The coaches that ask" what's the need for the rules changes" are probably the ones that give rise to the necessity for change.

      Here's what's probably happening in college ball and things that need change.

      1. When a kid commits (verbal) the recruiting initiatives (apparently) by other schools don't stop. I guess that's ok. "Verbals" are non-binding. All the kid is saying is, "everything I have seen, heard and experienced to date makes me want to attend your school and join your BB program". When the kid (he/she) gets to a verbal stage then
      he/she has 90 days to sign LOI. Obviously before he/she signs, they have already passed "acceptance" muster.
      2. The coaches probably have "contacts" that shield the coaches and create a conduit for their overtures even during the "verbal commit" stage. And, let's not rule out that these
      kids may also be sending out feelers through their own "FacebooK" and other discreet
      channels.
      3.When a kid signs a National Letter of Intent but then de-commits..... there should be, minimally, a review by the NCAA that includes the school he committed to and the one he ultimately chooses. Any improprieties are followed by "sanctions" against both the kid and the school. Period.

      For years the coaches have had the pendulum swing their way. Well, it's swinging the other way. In other words, "the hunted are now becoming the hunters".

      The stakes are huge and they transcend the tradional notion of "scholar-athletes". NCAA College basketball is becoming the "minor leagues" of the NBA & Euro-League. I am on record, especially with AL V, beginning 2 nearly 2 yrs ago, advancing the notion that many
      (most ?) kids using NCAA BB to grease the skids to the NBA. Graduation rates of these"Scholar Athletes" seem to support this notion.

      It's getting hotter but we haven't reached the "flash point" yet.

    • Ricksterps
      This has nothing at all to do with Gary getting outworked. He has been in constant contact with this kid from jump street. These kids now a days have no loyalty at all.

      We follow UMD so we think it just happens to us but that is way wrong. State was on Leslie from the start. All he could talk about was how excited he was to go to NC State. Then one day, blam, decomitt. You know why? Because he wanted to be chased like Wall was. The fact that State was there when no one else was didn't matter at all.

      Calapiri is telling Ross "Look at what I am doing for Wall. You come here and I will make you the next John wall".

      Calapari has run south of the rules at two schools now and it will soon be three. Kentucky just hopes to get a NC out of him before he gets popped.
    • idkwid
      They might get one that will later be voided by the NCAA. Maybe sanctions and loss of scholarships and tv, is it worth it? We all know it isn't
    • jonbruns
      Man, What an F'd up situation. Gary and the Terps give him love early, before he is a top 25'er. Then when he blows up a bit. Bam! In come the sharks. Oh well. He could commit to Maryland and end it all. Guess he is seeing what else is out there.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      When he committed to UMD, Ross was ranked in the 30s I believe. Then his ranking fell into the 40's because he wasn't out playing AAU ball in the summer. However people like Dave Telep at Scout have recently been saying that he's underrated and will likely move up.
    • ChuckWoolery


      So DBR, in other words, you don't think things look promising? I fear he won't be a Terp now.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      Today I haven't heard anything that a Terp fan would consider "encouraging" on Ross' recruitment. I've only been following basketball recruiting for a few short years, but one of the things I have learned is that almost anything can happen. So today was not a good day, however just 2 days one of my best sources almost guaranteed me that Ross would sign with UMD in April. I haven't been able to get him on the phone today tho.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      Not to mention Hanukkah.

      And there are people in Durham that are hoping they have a shot at Ross. These next few months are gonna be anything but dull.
    • jonbruns
      I, for one, will not be mad at Gary at all if Ross decommits. I got nothing but love for Gary. However, I am getting more and more sick of College Basketball. Seems to be really seedy and shady.
    • Chrs0049
      How pissed off is Parker? Ross basically told him that he wants to play with him here and that they could win a national title together. Now Parker signed and Ross is on the ropes to KY? God. What a shitty way to start Christmas
    • jonbruns
      What the F**k. Dagger.
    • ChuckWoolery

      - This outlook seems genuinely bleak. Knowing that used car salesman is up to his old tricks, I seriously doubt Ross will honor is verbal. I'll hold out hope.
    • calipari is a dirt bag. it he decommits, then the NCAA should launch an investigation. there is no way that he is that much better of a recruiter than everyone (didn't he steal John Wall away from Duke) that he just winning kids over with his personality. Something else is going on. he is cheating plain and simple. what else is required for the NCAA to do something? Calipari's 2 final four appearances were revoked and he is "miraculously" convincing kids to decommit from other schools. Someone talk me of the ledge.
    • CT
      Stu Vetter is still in our corner, isn't he? That's gotta count for something.

      I fear this is a done deal - T. Ross to Kentucky.
    • terps96
      Seriously?? Why not Oregon I could take it if the kid said "I want to play near home." F*** that stupid Hillbilly school.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      Oregon isn't exactly known for putting kids in the NBA so typically top kids don't go there and shine. Singler didn't go there...doubtful Jones will wind up there.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      I've been on and off the phone about this Kentucky angle since about 8am and while Ross is still a Terp commit, I haven't heard anything that a Terp fan would consider "encouraging".

      No one I talk to will come right out and say anything definitive so I've had to read between alot of lines. At this point it appears that Gary & staff has done ALL they can do and that outside forces are imposing their will on Ross' recruitment.

      Hopefully I've built up enough collateral with ya'll that you understand that I try not to post things until I've got some credible sources. This isn't over but I wanted to update ya.
    • if this kid goes to calipari, that proves to me that the corruption in the NCAA is beyond repair. How much more obvious does it have to be?
    • DiamondbackRuss
      If I search hard enough I can probably find an old article that quotes Ross saying Memphis was one of his favorites until Coach Calipari left
    • Gregg
      I'm sure they will do their best to keep him, but don't discount what John Calipari is all about. CT is right. He is a cheating bastard who has been investigated multiple times. He is dirty. Who knows what has been going on behind the scenes, but I'm sure it aint clean.
    • mariolucasforthree
      Good points CT. I think Gary is doing all his can for this one, but if the UK rumor is true (and we all know Calipari's history), and if the speculation of Nike being involved somehow to get Ross to a Nike Elite school is also true, there really isn't anything Gary can do besides putting in a non-shady 100% effort .
    • CT
      This has nothing to do with Gary driving T. Ross away. Rather, "Gary screwing up" is Gary getting outworked. Gary gets knocked for recruiting because it's not his priority, and therefore people believe he doesn't work as hard to go after kids as some other coaches. Of course, there's a right and a wrong way. I applaud Gary for maintaining the high ground; he simply can't compete if other schools are breaking the rules to lure top talent. But even if you're doing things the right way, you have to outwork your competition, show up at as many games as you can, maintain constant contact with the players - truly convince each and every one kid that he is MD's #1. So far, it appears Gary is working hard for T. Ross, making his presence felt, showing him much love. That's all Gary can do. But he has to do it, and keep doing it. If he doesn't, and it turns out T. Ross isn't getting as much attention from MD as he is from other programs, Gary shoulders some responsibility if T. Ross goes elsewhere.

      Now, if a kid wants to play near his family or has some other legit reason not to choose MD, that's totally understandable, and Gary can only do so much to change the kid's mind. Similarly, if a coach like Calipari does something shady to convince a kid to renig on his commitment and come to Kentucky, it's out of Gary's hands. If these or other similar factors are at play with T. Ross, it is what it is.

      Again, I feel the need to emphasize that I love Gary to death and believe he should coach here until he decides otherwise. But I also recognize his flaws, and I'm counting on him to do everything in his power to keep T. Ross at MD.
    • chiterp
      Ross to Kentucky? I just almost threw up in my mouth. Say it ain't so y'all.
    • OK. Now it's time to PANIC!!
    • DiamondbackRuss
    • NYMets9631
      ...
    • Ricksterps
      You can get on Gary for his overall recruiting but not that specific kid. Again, what if the kid just decides he doesn't want to play that far away from his family? I mean depending on his parent's financial situation, playing at Maryland may mean they never get to see him play.

      How can that be characterized as Gary screwing up? I think that's what got everyone riled up. If the phrase would have been "I can just see us not landing this kid", that is one thing. But to infer, with no knowledge of the situation, that something Gary did something that drove this kid away is silly.

      The class after the NC is a good example. It was a top ten recruiting class and had everyone drooling. The final product was substandard. Is that Gary's fault? At the end of the day, yes. He is responsible for recruiting and coaching these kids.

      So no one is saying he isn't responsible for recruiting, we are just saying you can't blame Gary if a specific kid decides to go elsewhere.
    • CT
      Ethan, keep doing what you're doing. There's plenty of room at the Soup for differing opinions.

      To the extent we're still on this topic - If you're gonna dole out praise to Gary for getting the verbal commit from T. Ross (praise that he definitely deserves), you have to be ready to assign at least some blame to Gary if Ross jumps. Ultimately it's the head coach's responsibility to put this team together. And this coming from a die hard Gary supporter.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      I've learned that sometimes there are outside forces that impact recruiting that a coach has little if any control over. One could say, for example...why did Selby de-commit from Tennesee was it because of Bruce Pearl not being able to close? He got Tobias.
    • goodeeze
      A little bit off subject, but SI.com has done its College Basketball Decade in Review. Of course the All-Decade team is Tobacco Road-heavy, but at least Juan was just off the top..

      http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/magazine/specials/2000s/12/15/cbb.all.decade.team/index.html
    • DiamondbackRuss
    • jonbruns
      We sure have been irrelevant for a while huh? Ridiculous. That sentiment infuriates me. There is A LOT to be proud of from the Terps in the 'Aughts! And this season is still young.
    • umterpx3
      I feel this way too!! Even seasons which end up being disappointing, there are still moments that make me proud to be a Terps fan.

      Like the 2004-2005 season, it didn't end well, but the fact that we swept Duke since beating them in the ACC championship was the highlight of that season for me. Especially that 2OT win at home. We fouled out their entire starting lineup other than J.J., as well as Dockery (Sheldon Williams, Lee Melchionni, Shavlik Randolph, Daniel Ewing, and Sean Dockery). Although going to the NIT is not what we wanted, we made it to the finals even with the turmoil going on.

      And the 2005-2006 season, we were going well prior to Cmac's ineligibility, and were undefeated at home. That boston college win was huge. Also, Gary had surpassed Lefty at home, with that 349th win. And we had made it past the first round of the ACC tournament, and I really thought we'd make a run, but it couldn't have happened without NCM.

      And 2006-2007, that run at the end was exciting (especially considering we swept the eNTIRE state of North Carolina). ESPN even did a segment on how we couldn't be stopped. :)

      Knocking off 18-0 #1 UNC at Dean Dome was huuuuuuge and we were all over national spotlight for that. And Gary getting his 600th win at Boston College.

      And there are far too many highlights from last season. Starting with the Miami game where everyone rallied behind Gary, GV's career highlight vs. UNC, ACC tournament semifinals, being an improbable team that made it back to the tournament. :)

      I definitely agree that even despite some disappointing ends of some of the previous seasons, the Terps have NOT been irrelevant, and there is definitely a lott to be proud of with the Terps.
    • spmd
      http://www.diamondbackonline.com/2.2792/dear-coach-williams-1.286684#3

      here is the article

      I am a die-hard Terrapin basketball fan. Therefore, I loathe Gary Williams. Yes, I said it, and I believe I speak for many students on this campus when I say it. I am sick and tired of ignorant Terp fans proclaiming their love for our glorified coach based on their brainless optimism for an annually underachieving team. I get nauseous when Gary comes out of the locker room tunnel, pumps his fist, and the crowd goes crazy. What, or who, is he pumping to? Is he pumping because he knows at the end of a big game he won't have another chance to throw a victory pump and is simply getting it out of his system prior to the game in order to meet some sort of seasonal quota? But I digress. In the following analysis, I will provide the basis for titling Gary Williams as the foundation for this team's mediocrity (as well as for all Terp teams following the 2001 Final Four run and 2002 National Championship).

      First off, I'd like to make it clear that I'm a senior, hailing from the suburbs of Boston. I applied to this university immediately following the national championship with high expectations for the four years I would attend. Yes, the national championship lured me in, but quite frankly, I don't care what happened at this school before I came here. I wasn't here to enjoy it, so in my mind, it never happened. Other than a fluke ACC Tournament Championship during my freshman year, thanks to John Gilchrist, this program has shown me nothing. Since 2003, the men's basketball program has been a complete and utter failure. We have missed the NCAA tournament two years in a row and are well on our way to missing it for a third straight year. We were decent enough to earn the No. 1 seed in the prestigious NIT tournament last year, only to lose to Manhattan at home, in the first round. This year, we are a miserable 3-6 in the ACC. With Duke and North Carolina home games lurking in the upcoming month, it doesn't get any easier.

      Now, let's discuss Gary's impeccable recruiting resume of late, shall we? A rational person would believe that a national championship would help out a team's recruiting tactics. Do the names Rudy Gay and Kevin Durant mean anything to you? Both stars from Maryland, both decided NOT to come here. And those who did decide to come to here, both from in and out of state? Drastic underachievers. The class of Mike Jones, D.J. Strawberry, Ekene Ibekwe, etc., had unbelievable hype coming in, all fellow seniors of mine, all underperformers. I can't remember the last time I watched a game without thinking, "Is it really possible that the majority of these guys have worsened since freshman year?"

      Gary, if you are reading this, I have four suggestions to improve upon your coaching and hopefully turn our men's basketball program around sooner than later. First, furiously yelling at the bench for mistakes players in the game are making accomplishes absolutely nothing. Second, find a legitimate big man. Please. Third, stop wasting scholarships on walk-ons and junior college transfers while you let blue-chippers slip through your fingers. There is a reason these guys weren't heavily recruited in the first place. And finally, learn how to inspire your players when you aren't playing Duke.

      For those of you not graduating with me in May, good luck remaining optimistic about a team that is losing all, if any, leadership in Jones, Strawberry and Ibekwe.

      After writing this, I realized why Gary pumps his fist - he is just THAT proud of himself for conning the Athletics Department into keeping him around.

      Jeremy Cohen is a senior finance major.
    • idkwid
      LOL!!!I was not a math major, but i calculate that this is your seventh year, and you have still not graduated.
    • spmd
      idkwid- not sure how you figured that. i graduated in may 2008. and charlestonterp, i lived on smith street by wentworth. my bars were usually places in the market or upper king like dollar or beerworks.
    • Ricksterps
      That article made this jackass look worse than Gary. You chose the school solely because we won a NC? The rest is just a little kid holding his breath and stomping his feet because he didn't get what he thought he had coming.

      The line about Gary not winning big games is laughable. He has beaten more number one teams than almost any other coach in the country.
    • spmd
      im not going to lie. i can't stand the out of state kids who criticize maryland/gary/greivis. half these kids choose maryland for its reputation as a basketball school and when the program struggles, they get pissed because they feel some sort of entitlement. they dont know anything about the history of the program nor do they care. they just want their four years in college park to have a great bball team. anyone remember that prick from boston jeremy cohen that wrote in the diamondback in 06-07 criticizing gary and the boys right after we fell to 3-6 in the league? we won 7 straight after that. and you're if reading this jeremy cohen, you should know you're still a huge douche bag.
    • GERRY
      NYMets9631- I'd ask you to go back and read OldTerpFan's post and a few of mine,if I dare ask re GV and perhaps revisit your feelings re GV.

      You need to factor into your thoughts OldTerpFan's thoughts about "supporting cast". In GV's first 2 years, with the exception of Boom Osby, rebounding was an afterthought. Also
      you could have sat on a chair underneath the bucket and not get bumped. Last year, GV
      lead the team in Pts, Assists and rebounds? Dave Neal was a huge difference, setting picks and hitting crucial 3's. That improved the supporting cast a bit. This year, if JW can get plenty of PT and Padget and Dino as well the "supporting cast" could be the diffference. Certainly don't expect GV to have the same year as last. Mosely and LM have improved immensely, JW is a Big that can score AND rebound. Dino, despite his year end needs to get back into that shape.

      Until then, there's going to be some cliff-hangers.

      I truly believe it's abundantly clear that GV is an "all timer".

      BTW- Mosely, with 2.5 years left could follow as well.

      Go Terps
    • NYMets9631
      Gerry I agree and have no problem with that Assessment. The team is first year was good should of done better and he did all he could the other past 2 years. I totally agree with you how he will end up. Especially this year if JW improves like you said. Go Terps as well!
    • jonbruns
      I just missed the great time of '01 - '02 on campus. I graduated in 2000. The time i was there was great none-the-less basketball wise. I think a lot of this is just the fickle nature of people/fans these days. It is ridiculous. I went to Bball games with my pops through the dark days '80s and '90s. Maryland means so much more to me than just their record. It is a birthright for me. Pretty much my entire family went to Maryland. I met my wife at Maryland. I take my daughters to games at Maryland. Fairweather and "Flavor of the Week' fans annoy the hell out of me. Can you support a team and cheer for a team that is working hard but not going to the final four every year? I can. Doesn't mean I don't want/expect greatness from them. But I cheer them on through thick and thin.
    • NY_Terp
      Maybe I'm in the middle of this transition to the "new" terp fan. I was a sophomore when we won it in '02 and was just old enough to enjoy Joe Smith, Keith Booth, Hipp, Rhodes, etc. I personally think the belly aching stems from the 2 classes that followed the championship Terps. As we've spoken about how many of those players thought they were entitled because they came to MD and played for a championship team. They didn't bring that work ethic.

      While I was a student, I'd occasionally bump into, Juan, LB or Blake on campus. Also, while I was a student I'd often run into NCM, Mike Jones, McCray, that whole crew at Bentley's, Lupo's (no longer exists) or some other night time establishment. Those guys become the butt of many jokes during their time at CP. They didn't rep the University well. It was frustrating. This changed I think the culture of the team a lot and now I think it's starting to be righted by hustle guys like Moseley.

      Also, I think the terp fan has changed in a lot of ways as well. Going to games in Cole was special and will always be. I'm proud I was there while I could still do that. Not only that, we had to work for tickets. In meant getting in line at 5am, or even camping out for the Duke or UNC game. Kid taking notes for other guys who were in tents, bringing them food, and clothes. Once Comcast opened, it was different, all you had to do was log-in online and reserve a seat. You didn't even have to leave your room to get a ticket anymore. I hope the MD fan can get back to also being a blue collar fan.
    • idkwid
      at least we had one stand up hard nosed player in that era, DJ Strawberry, one of my 2 favortie Terps,, the other being Buck Williams, guys who just relentlessly did whatever job they had to do.
    • jonbruns
      I remember sleeping in Cole for Duke tickets. I think the Duke game Wojo came out and hit about 5 threes in the first 3 minutes.

      Regarding the 2 classes that followed the National Championship, you cant have it both ways. Gary gets KILLED for not have a top ten recruiting class but those classes following the Championship were very highly regarded. They just didn't pan out. But the teams that built our streak of tourney appearances and our 01-02 runs were underrated, overacheiving teams (Joe Smith, Juan Dixon, Lonny, etc). But sometimes underrated and overacheiving can only take you so far (see last year).
    • NY_Terp
      I agree 100%. Those two classes were highly regarded. Garrison, McCray, Jones (a McDonald's all-american), DJ, Gilchrist, the majorit of them were 4 star recruits, I'm sure DBR remembers that info better than me.

      Beyond natural ability, especially in college, is heart and team work. We saw and heard the stories of how hard Dixon, Blake and LB worked. They obviously weren't the most gifted athletes, but they were never out hustled, out worked, or under prepared for a game.
    • terps96
      Also should note that at the BB&T the cup was thrown on the court from an old dude that was a couple seats over from me....this is just stuff that happens regardless of age groups. He by the way was also cursing a storm at GV.
    • idkwid
      it was a bottle, a plastic beer bottle
    • Wheels
      About these kids today...any boomer who complains about these kids today needs to look in the mirror. I'm a Gen Xer myself, but the boomers used to call us slackers and losers. The boomers created this generation of self-entitled kids who are now getting smacked around in the real world with this recession. For these kids who've had everything at their fingertips, everything on demand for their entire lives...it's all fallen down around them. These kids are finding out what we already knew: we're all just holding numbers at the meat counter waiting in line.

      I was shocked...floored...to hear from some business people that it's not uncommon for 22 year old kids to tell prospective employers that their parents would be helping them during the salary negotiations. I get parents emailing me about their college student kids' grades. It's not the kids' faults. It's what they've grown up with, a bunch of 50 year old parents getting involved in every aspect of their lives because they don't want to see their kids fail. Well, now the economic house of cards has fallen, and these kids are wandering out there aimlessly...without any real expectations of that the real world is.

      How this relates to MD hoops...I don't know. Sorry for the rant. Don't blame the kids today. It's us geezers who created them and the environment in which they live.
    • terps96
      Aren't we over generalizing age groups right now? I mean I have season tickets in football and basketball and I hear boos all the time in coming out of my sections and the sections around me. With regards to GV I hear all the time pleads for Garry to bench him or much worse, so I wouldn't say it is just the students.

      I think part of the reason we hear the students boorish behavior is 1) They're right on the court and easily seen and heard 2) Usually standing and vocal so T.V. tends to catch them. The "Older" crowd (which I guess I'm becoming a part of now) with the exception of games against Duke and UNC tend to be much quieter with the occasional clap.

    • NYMets9631
      I just have one question and trust me and I am huge GV Supporter and I love him alot. He carries so much passion and heart for Maryland. But to have his jersey hang in the rafters would be great I think, however, don't some accomplishments need to be made? And I hope he does but I mean he's gone to the NCAA 2nd round, NIT 2nd round, and NCAA 2nd round that's all. I believe him when he says he will bring us something good this year and if that's the case then I'm all for it. But I guess what I'm saying is that through his time here, individual aside, the team accomplishments haven't been too grand.
    • GERRY
      Turltlepin67- My sentiments exactly. Thanks
    • GERRY
      Ricksterps --- Makes Sense. Thanks.

      OldtTerpFan- It's folks like you that make the Soup, as Ricksterps said so well, "The best place on the Internet to talk all things Terp".

      You must have also taught "History" as well as graduate math. Thanks for the incisive retrospective on our beloved Terp BB team.

      I too have watched about every Terp game ever televised and like many others even scoured the internet for live coverage. Thanks for remembering Mo Howard. perhaps one of the most athletic guards in MD history. I have visions of him trailing a fast break
      and when the other player went for a layup he just smacked it off the backboard. Mo was
      perhaps on the the all time great "support cast" as a guard.

      Some here think I believe GV can do no wrong. Obviously that's not the case but he's done us more good than harm. I can't say he ever lost us a game. But, there are dozens of games we would not have won without him.

      Mark the tape. I am on record as saying "his jersey will/should hang in the rafters and he will be one of the top 15 terps ever". I also like your stat on GV as "the most prolific 3pt shooter in Md History. Yes, he made a lot of attempts but we should concentrate on the ones he "made" and not those he missed. Here's why I'm not concerned about his misses. Against EKU he was probably 0-3 at one point then comes down and drains to 3's in 34 seconds. That's what lights up a team and a supporting cast. I remember one
      game last year he came down and popped 3 consecutive 3's. I have had to remind our terp fans here that those that hit the most homeruns also tend to lead in strikeouts.

      Nuff said. Oooops a former professor your are....that is ...Enough said. I am a Yankee
      from Maine in Augusta Georgia. So the drawl slips out.

      Welcome aboard and hope to hear more from you.

      Go Terpss
    • idkwid
      missed shots are only ok if the terps get the board. Overall, is a really terrible occurance and hurts the chances of winning the ame.
    • turtlepin67
      One of the major differences between the student fan base of today and that of the pre-ESPN era, is the level of fan involvement. It appears that the goal of a significant portion of today's students is get their mugs on TV. Those individuals realize that the more outrageous their behavior, the more likely they will been seen.

      Back in the day, very few games were televised; hence, the focus of the fan base was the game itself. I would venture to say the basketball IQ of the pre-ESPN student fan base was higher than today's student fan base, because it wasn't diluted with the "Look at Me" idiots.
    • DiamondbackRuss
      Interesting points. I do find myself smh at some fans behavior. However, when I went to the Miami game at Comcast back in January I was stunned at the 30-50 year olds around me that didn't seem to cheer hard for the team. Oh they clapped, but there were plays were I jumped out of my seat to applaud and I was the only one around me doing that.
    • turtlepin67
      DBR,

      Unfortunately, I have not lived in the CP area since the 70's, so I have no first hand experience with the crowds. My artifical knee would preclude me from jumping out of my seat, but my lungs are still healthy. I agree. If you aren't going to cheer, why go to the game.
    • OldTerpFan
      One additional comment about GV that is not common knowledge. He is the most prolific 3 point shooter in MD history!! I looked up the stats for MD and discovered that he has the most 3's in MD history as a Sophomore, when stacked up against previous Sophomores, and the same as a Junior. So he has done better than anyone else in MD history in made 3's for the past two years! And they still boo him...makes no sense!!
    • OldTerpFan
      Just wanted to add some comments from an OLD guy (I'm 68 and teach a graduate math course once every few years). I never went to MD but was a UCLA fan when UCLA was winning all those national championships. Since I lived in MD, I started following MD when Lefty said that he was going to make MD the UCLA of the East. He was a GREAT recruiter but a mediocre game coach. My son (now 42) went to Lefties BB camps during summers. We both loved MD BB!! Then the Bias tragedy happened and the dark years followed. But I still watched EVERY MD basketball game that was on TV and my son and I went to at least one game every year. Including two games were MD beat the #1 team. When Garry came we were happy. But his main problem has been his integrity (when did that become a problem?). He could never get that 5 star player because he wouldn't give in to the AAU coaches demands for access to players. But unlike Lefty, Garry is a GREAT game coach. And he keeps losing his best assistants, the ones who do the recruiting. So he has problems with consistency.

      As to crowds booing GV, just a bunch of immature kids spurred on by crowd dynamics to react on childish emotions for instant gratification. Us older folks who have been around a LONG time appreciate what GV is doing for the program and feel confident that he will lead the team to the sweet 16 this year. In my opinion, he is one of the best guards ever to play at MD, right up there with Lucas and Blake (but a little slower than either). The only reason he has not lead the team to higher rankings has been his supporting cast. The National championship team had four (that's right, 4) big men rotating under the basket and two great 3 point shooters. And Lucas had Mo Howard shooting from the outside and Len Elmore on the inside. Who does GV have on the inside?? And in GV's three previous years he lead the team in made 3's and he's the point guard. I personally don't understand the animosity against him.
    • I would say the raised academic standards (and price tag) of the University have brought in a different class of students that don't know the real world from a hole in the wall. They don't know hard times in life or in Terp. They are soft. This is why 17+ at Comcast is NEVER as loud as 10+ at Cole. They need to learn to respect their elders, who quite frankly, are just plain better (and more knowledgeable) sports fans than they are.

      Yeah, I said it.
    • umterpx3
      I have to agree with you on the different class of students. Of course, not every fan falls into this generalization, but this is definitely based on my own perceptions. I was a student from 2004-winter 2008, and you could definitely see the progression at the games. I think this new cynical fan doesn't describe the fan base as a whole, but it definitelyyyyy is more prevalent over the past 2 years. The "New" Terp fan is an excuse for the fair-weathered fans, because PLENTYYYY of students do not pessimistically criticize the team's play.

      Students in the crowds during my first three years (2004-2007) definitely appeared to be more supportive and creative (the signs people brought to Comcast were definitely one of the more hilarious highlights of the game). Fans would make up hilarious chants, and even some imitating player reactions. Even fans at the NIT turnouts were loud (though, not even close to full because it was Spring Break). There were still those casual fans who went to every game and only seemed to yell about how NCM was a ballhog (the "Gary needs to go" sentiment didn't really surface sporadically in the crowd til 2006-2007, before we went on that great run). But it was far and few in between. This is just a few years removed, but these fans would NOT collectively boo any player. For the most part, students were still excited over Terps basketball games, and would discuss them in class, at parties, at the bars, at the CRC. People skipped class to watch the ACC tournament games, or the NCAA tournament game (Davidson), and would keep classmates informed of their scores from their phones. A lot of those students probably wouldn't get into the university based on the academic admissions standards now, and definitely cared about a lot more things than just academics. And those players still got a lot of support (although there were still frat boys at the bars who would have words with some of the players).

      Last season especially (I still went to games even after graduating and sat in the student section), it seems like it's just popular for the random fan who just gets tickets to the ACC games (or just started following Terps basketball bc they just started going here) to appear informed by proclaiming how much the entire team sucks as a whole. I definitely had words with 3 of the guys sitting next to me at the Georgia Teach game last year where GV got booed because GV had been such an integral part of the team (backed with stats) and I was positive they were having an off-night due to being STUDENT-athletes - they had 2 big assignments due for their winter class on a SATURDAY (my boyfriend was in the class with about 6 of the players).
      During the last two years, it was obvious that the dynamics seemed to have changed. I know I'm making a generalization, and it's not based off any certifiable facts, but it's clearly apparent who the underclassmen are in the audience, and their basketball IQ is not very high, nor is their team knowledge - which isn't a problem in itself if you're there to cheer on your team. It IS a problem when said uninformed fan is loudly subjecting everyone around them to their ignorant comments (and people for the most part won't be confrontational and tell them to shutup). The lack of creativity as a whole bothers me about these new student fans (though our fanbase still had a few good moments last year). They don't have to be vulgar, but they seem to be more led by orchestrated chants, and I'm sorry, but chanting "you can't do that" at a game is the equivalent of nerdily chanting "nani nani boo boo."

      I don't buy the myth that there is a "new" terp fan. I just think that there are more prevalent, vocal, immature fair-weather fans than before who are either uninformed, do not have a life outside academics, or are not fans until they started going here.
    • Ricksterps
      Let's turn that microscope from our team to our fans. There are not many schools across the country that boo their own team or individual players. IMO, it makes us all look bad. We aren't Maryland players we are Maryland fans. When they do classless things it puts us all in a negative light. Win or lose we are judged as fans.

      How do you think Gary and the players think of you? Do they have a right to expect the same level of fans of say UNC like some of you expect of players from the same school?

      Calling a spade a spade is one thing. But piling on all the time and blasting everyone is another.

      I was one of the first to say that our football team was horrible. We won the first ACC game at Clemson and some were still talking bowls and the like. If you saw that team play those first three games you knew it was bad and not getting better this year. It was an honest assessment of the team.

      We then hashed out, very rationally, the status of Fridge. The consensus was we give him another year even if he doesn't really deserve it. I don't think you could get upset if they had fired him just like we didn't set our couches on fire when they kept him.

      Hell, we have Jeremy on here and he is no Mr Sunshine. The reality is I read 85% of the posts on here. There are some that I skip over because they are a broken record or just negative to be negative.

      This is THE best place on the internet to talk all things Terp. We have a bunch of guys that could have their own blogs. Funny, insightful, and very entertaining missives are all over the place.

      This was not meant for Ethan. He is way too new for me to pass any sort of judgment. There are however, way too many Terp "fans" that are rude, angry and ignorant.


    • GERRY
      Jusg got back from 3 days of travel. Read all the threads/posts. Glad to see Ethan survived. Looks like we are getting closer to "fair and balanced".

      There is one glaring item though and that is -"The Vampire (AL V) is lurking in the background". I don't know whose blood he's feasting on but we should all be glad it's not ours. We could use some "fodder" from him to "stoke" our appetite.

      Al V - Come out, come out, wherever you are!

      Go Terps


    • ChuckWoolery

      As someone stated here: Mark the tape: I'm wagering Ross will honor his verbal, be in a Md uni, and we'll storm into the Elite 8 next yr. Look Out!!!!!

      I really think JWill is gonna be a stud, not a dud like Braxton Dupree.
    • ChuckWoolery


      - Mets;

      Thanks for the info. I would pass on this guy if he can't make it @ Fordham.
    • goodeeze
      Don't sleep on this kid. He could be a nice compliment to Stroglin. He was top 150 recruit out of HS (St. Anthony's in Jersey City, the same HS as Pankey), and led Fordham in Pts, Asst, Steals and had 2.3 rebounds per game as a Freshman.

      There is an article about him on Rivals.com today, actually, the lead story, but its part of the premium section, so I can't read it. But this is what Rivals.com had to say about him while he was in HS.

      "Playing for a stacked St. Anthony's squad, Fontan has carved out a niche as a ferocious on-the-ball defender. He also has a strong understanding of how to run a team on the offensive end. He doesn't over dribble and can knock down the three-point shot."

      I think he would fit the mold of Gary player. His dad might be a little bit of an issue, but the kid wasn't happy at Fordham, and apparently is wanted by major programs across the county. If we have a scholarship for him, why not take a run at him..
    • NYMets9631
    • ChuckWoolery

      Well, if anyone is really a Terps hoops fan, regardless of age, it would behoove them to read about the Tom McMillan's, Brad Davis, Len Elmore etc. And yes "Reggie Jackson" did play guard for the Univ of Md ... just not Mr. October.

      I believe Steve Nash was the starting guard at Santa Clarawhen Md got upset in the tourney.

      There are a couple of good books out there that are good reference points for Md hoops. Sadly, I bought one from the Md Book Exchange yrs ago - they screwed me outta enough $$ for textbooks back in the day.



    • Gregg
      Just say what you feel Ethan. Leave it to us old guys to bitch and moan about it!!
    • Thanks for saving me Gregg. It's a good point, I wasn't around for the doldrums of Maryland basketball. Being a New Yorker, all I knew of Maryland before I decided to come here was the '01-'02 Final Four years with the four NBA-ers and Gary v. Roy talk. Since then, the mainstream sports media has largely ignored Maryland, and in New York, there wasn't a lot of opportunities to learn about the Terps. We're a professional sports world where coaches are fired and players traded and signed as soon as the fan base sours on them. That culture has permeated Maryland's young fan base, and I'm as guilty as anyone (obviously).

      I'll try to be more positive (I definitely am high on the Terps this year and the future) in my posts, and come ACC time, I'll be in the press box silently cheering the Terps as hard as anyone can silently cheer for anything.
    • Wheels
      I think that our collective pessimism goes back to the Lefty years. It's not that MD fans booed the teams back in the day, but Lefty came to MD from Davidson and said "MD will be the UCLA of the east coast." Lefty started taking heat for not delivering, and I wonder if he would have been pushed out after Lenny's death had he made a Final 4 or two. Of course, that's an unanswerable question because things really were out of control throughout MD's athletic department during the 1980s.

      When Gary revived the program, he renewed Lefty's expectations...but the down years added a new dynamic to Terpdom that likely started when MD didn't make the NCAAs after losing to NCST in what might have been the greatest college game ever played. That game, Lenny's death, Bob Wade...MD fans became forelorn, feeling that us against them, inferiority complex.

      It became part of the culture of the university. Look at that place now. Ethan goes to a school that many of us 1) couldn't get into now, and 2) don't even recognize when we get on campus. It's a phenomenal school, one of the best in the world. Yet even the administration and their marketers reek of "look at us...christ, look at us...we're just as good as Penn St and UNC...yoohoo...over here!"

      I think MD fans became really nasty right around Steve Francis's time at MD. We were consistent Sweet 16 entrants...but the ghost of Lefty's "UCLA of the East" expectations started to rankle fans. Remember that Gary took a lot of heat for never taking MD past the Sweet 16. That loss to Santa Clara in, what, 1996 had people howling. I think around 1998 or so is when MD fans (all of us) started to get increasingly out of control.

      Because of the inferiority complex, we didn't handle winning too well. We treated opposing fans like they were fresh fish coming into a prison. We rioted when we won or lost big games. We burned Rt 1 after winning a title. Then the drop off happened again...and now after winning it all we expect UCLA of the East. We demand it. After they built Comcast, we got even harsher.

      I don't know what it is, why we can't shake that inferiority complex. But I think that's the root of it. We don't like being that little school way up there in the pro city that the rest of the ACC ignores.
    • terpbugman
      I've been a MD Terp fan since around '70/'71 - just before Lefty came - so I've seen the team through all those years. The Elmore/McMillan/Lucas years, the King/Williams years, the Bias years, and on up to the present.

      If there is an inferiority complex, I would say it didn't exist before GW came. And I don't think it exists because of GW. There have been disappointments over the years (the NCAA sanction fiasco and the unfairness of it all was probably the worst), and we've come through them. The inferiority complex, I would say, comes from the disappointments over the teams after 2002 and the NC. Expectations were much higher. It was believed that MD had finally arrived at the pinnacle and would stay there. The new recruits were highly thought of, and it was expected they would carry the Terps. But they didn't. They couldn't carry the load of expectations on their shoulders. And now, the combined perceived lack of recruiting ability by GW and high expectations has built the inferiority even further.

      So where do we go from here?

      (1) Yes, we're still digging out of the hole post-2002 of players who did not meet expectations. Let's be honest --- they underperformed. But the 2010 class (as long as Ross stays) has the potential to reverse that trend.

      (2) The inferiority (and I'll also say, booing the home team) has to go. MD has much to be proud of in their program. The Terps have an incredible legacy that few schools have. Are we like NC/Duke/UCLA/Kansas? Maybe not. But if we aren't, we're just below them in basketball prestige. Concerning the booing, that is in incredibly bad taste and is downright wrong. You don't do that to your home team, and anyone who does it is not a real Terp fan.
    • azterpfan
      fairweathered fans suck
    • jonbruns
      Agreed. Before you slam a coach. Learn a little bit of history. Its not that far back everyone! We won a Natl Championship this decade.
    • okaybowler
      Good damage control, Gregg. Lots of interesting points in here, though I would question how much influence the WaPo has over college kids, but I def agree with the idea of high expectations from youngsters (I'm a borderline youngster myself).

      But I am tired of all the negativity thrown the way of the program. Sure they haven't succeeded the way we'd like, but its a well run program with one of the greatest coaches ever.
    • Gregg
      I figure the WaPo 'story' got a lot of attention and was talked about by many fans, it had a negative effect on the program as a whole.
    • Chrs0049
      It's an interesting question - where did the negativity come from? Expectations? Failed expectations? Do/did fans at Arizona, Kentucky (prior to this year), Indiana consistently harass their players when they don't succeed? What about UCLA now? There are only a few members of the ELITE level of college basketball (UNC, Duke, Kansas) who never really have a down year. Hell, a couple years ago when Duke went 8-8 in the ACC everyone responded like it was the worst year in the history of their program.

      When did it start? The first instance I can remember was the home loss against FSU in the 00-01 season, when the team got booed off the court. Course that ended up propelling us to the Final Four so maybe it was just an isolated incident. Was it the 04-05 and 05-06 teams? So much talent just couldn't put it all together. Still that was pre-Vasquez. I have no idea what he did to get this treatment from our fans.

      His freshman year was our last really good season: we won 20+, swept Duke/UNC had that sick 7 game winning streak to close out the regular ACC season -- and he was the STARTING POINT GUARD on that team (I believe Hayes started the first half of the season, and Vasquez took over in the middle). I mean didn't he put up like 12-11-9 IN Durham? Soooo sick. That little shimmy after hitting the back-to-back threes? Awesome.

      So I don't really know at what point Vasquez become a love/ hate figure in College Park. Maybe the next year when he was the best player on a mediocre team and tried to carry the team too many times? I don't know.

      I also don't know when it became "acceptable" to boo him (and only him, no other player). How does this make sense? Why do students do it? Ugh, I feel old
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